Resilience breeds success, and no one articulates it better than Lisa Howze. Lisa is a former Michigan state representative and the former chief of staff and chief government affairs officer for Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan. She is now known as “The Career Transformation Specialist” and joins us today to discuss her book, Candy Girl Mentality. Lisa generously shares an endless stream of wisdom as she breaks down the “candy girl mentality,” defining setbacks and disappointments and providing tools to overcome them. We find out what informed her entrepreneurial mindset, how she navigates responsibility, and what she personally gleaned from the process of writing the book. Tune in to find out how best to manage expectations, combat imposter syndrome, and change your situation by changing your mind.
Key Points From This Episode:
- Lisa Howze’s journey to writing her book, Candy Girl Mentality.
- What informed her entrepreneurial mindset.
- The genesis of the title of her book.
- Lisa Howze breaks down the “candy girl mentality.”
- Lisa defines setbacks and disappointments and shares examples of each.
- How she learned resilience.
- The art of changing your situation by changing your mind.
- Lisa’s process of writing and editing the book.
- How she navigated the responsibility of being Chief of Staff for Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan.
- What to do when you feel like you’re in over your head.
- How to combat imposter syndrome.
- How best to manage expectations.
- Lisa’s top three tools for bouncing back from major setbacks or disappointments.
- Her greatest takeaway from the process of writing the book.
[00:00:01] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Branch Out, a Connection Builder’s podcast. Helping middle-market professionals connect, grow and excel in their careers. Through a series of conversations with leading professionals, we share stories and insights to take your career to the next level. A successful career begins with meaningful connections.
[00:00:20] AD: Lisa, welcome to the Branch Out Podcast. I’m excited for our conversation today.
[00:00:23] LH: Alex, thank you for having me. I’m excited as well. I can’t wait to jump in.
[00:00:28] AD: I’m going to tee this up this way. For our listeners, Lisa and I were just chatting a little bit before we jumped on here. We both have got a smile on our face, we’re laughing. We’re having a fun conversation and really, this is around a book that Lisa has spent a number of years authoring and putting together and getting ready to launch in the very near future here. I know a little bit about it, but not all that much. I’m sitting here to genuinely curious space, asking Lisa some questions and wanting to know about her journey both in what she’s learned from writing the book, what the book’s about, but also the process and everything that went into it.
The point of the conversation, again, for listeners is, I think there’s a lot of folks out there that have thought about authoring content, whether it be short-form content, longer-form content. A book is a point of content. It’s a longer story. There’s a lot more that goes into it, but the process and I’ll call it, thought leadership creation, when you’re putting some thoughts together and you’re bringing together a story or telling and sharing some knowledge or some wisdom, there’s a lot of value and a lot of personal growth that comes from that. I know that from my own experience being a creator. I think for anyone even, I guess, say, especially if your job is not a full-time creator or someone who’s an author.
inking about this process, and what it could mean, and what value could get from starting to create your own content is a thing, a really valuable way to think about things, right? That’s what I want to make sure we come out of all this today. That was a, maybe to tee it up for where we’re going here, Lisa. But before we jump in, what I’d love to know from you is a little bit about you. How’d you get to where you are today? Then take us through that journey of I’m going to write a book and you started into that process.
[00:02:06] LH: Well, thank you again, Alex. I appreciate this. A little bit about myself. Before I was an author, before I became a certified public accountant. I was an entrepreneur. Before I went on to serve in the state house as a state representative, I was an entrepreneur. Before I ran for mayor here in the city of Detroit and ultimately served as the Chief of Staff and chief government affairs officer for Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan, I was an entrepreneur. I’ve always taken the entrepreneur lens to everything that I do because there’s always an opportunity to identify a problem and solve problems. I believe that’s the job of an entrepreneur is to be a problem solver.
[00:02:49] AD: I want to jump in for one second, what you’re saying is so important, so, so important, the entrepreneurial mindset. It is, I know all too many folks that want to be entrepreneurial today or they aspire to it, or even people who are business owners in their own way and don’t recognize that embracing the entrepreneurial mindset really is one main thing. It’s looking to solve challenges. Yes, there has to be economics and you have to have ways to scale it. There’s all these other elements, but at the end of the day, it’s solving a problem, in whether that’s your problem or someone else’s problem, the problems that are around you, it is a problem-solving capacity. Sorry to jump in. I just think that’s so important.
[00:03:22] LH: No, I appreciate it. So for me, that entrepreneurial spirit began when I was just 10 years old. It was born out of necessity more than anything. You see, I am the youngest of six children. I am actually the born of a single mom, four older brothers and an older sister. We moved to a new neighborhood after our second eviction before I turned nine years old. So when you’re faced with that type of adversity, for me, it was like a very confusing time in my life. I didn’t understand why this was happening. If I didn’t mention, this was the second time it had happened in a matter of two years.
The beauty, there’s always something beautiful that comes out of adversity. What it was, is being in this new neighborhood, I was exposed to a neighbor who had a lemonade stand. I saw that she was making really good money. In fact, I bought a couple of cups from her, right? So I said to myself, “You know what? If she can do it, then I can do it too, but when I do it, I’m going to do it better. I’m going to do it bigger.” But not only did I have lemonade, I had popcorn, fresh pop popcorn on the stove, right? When you melt the butter, you pour it on top of yourself that popcorn. I have penny candy as well. I call myself a 10-year-old meteorologist, because I used to check the weather to see if it was going to be an 80-degree day which meant I sell more lemonade, but if it was going to be 60 and cloudy, then of course not many sales is going to take place on that day.
I became an entrepreneur out of necessity because my family didn’t have the means to provide the things that I wanted. That gave me the basic things that I needed, but the things that I wanted, I knew that I would have to figure out a way to make it happen for myself. Then that carried over into high school, where I took a $13 investment in M&M candies, and turned it into more than a $4,000 savings by the time I graduated high school, which paid through my first year of college at the University of Michigan. So I am of the firm belief that it doesn’t take a lot of money to make money. All you need is a bit of imagination and creativity and the world is yours. So that’s my starting point. That’s the genesis for the title of the book. It’s, Candy Girl Mentality needs to turning bitter moments into sweet success.
[00:05:53] AD: I love that. I want to ask you a few questions. I want to go back to this entrepreneurial part, this problem-solving entrepreneur. What I too, have experienced adversity, not in the same way that you have. I think many folks in this world, unfortunately, experienced at some level adversity in different levels, right? We have a very wide range and a very unfair world, but that’s a totally different topic. What I, in my own experience, and it sounds like, what I’m hearing from you, there is a level of grit and tenacity in problem-solving and creativity that can come out of being in that adverse situation, right, because at the end of the day back you’re solving a problem and depending on your situation, problems can be greater or bigger challenges that sit in front of you. You have to overcome, right?
You have to figure out how to overcome big problems, problems in life. Then on top of that part of being entrepreneurial, and being tenacity and interfering, solving things out has to do with resource allocation. What do you have available to you? How do you make the best of what you have available to you? It sounds like, what I just, I heard it so clear from you that you’ve really embraced that mentality and how do I make the most of what I can do the best I can, overcome the biggest problems I can with what I have, and be the best at it what I came with one I have.
[00:07:06] LH: Absolutely. I mean, a lot of times people look at what they don’t have and allow that limitation to stop them. I believe the Candy Girl Mentality is one where you become unstoppable. No excuse stands in your way from getting what you need to have. So I took what some would consider not enough money, $13 and turn it into more than enough. So when you talk about an adverse situation, and growth, and change. You cannot grow unless there is change, without adversity, there is no growth.
The three actually go hand in hand. It’s something that I enjoy teaching and talking to young students about, as well as working with professionals like when I had first an opportunity to meet you, because I think that over the course of our lives, no matter when we’re young, as we grow up and mature and take on more responsibility, there is going to be what’s called a setback, or major disappointment. When you hear those two terms, sometimes people think of it as being one and the same or really a setback is stopping your forward progress. It’s something that you didn’t see coming, those surprises, those unforeseen circumstances that delay you from getting to your destination.
[00:08:29] AD: Do you think anyone’s had that in the last couple of years?
[00:08:32] LH: I think so. Nobody saw a pandemic coming in. I know, I certainly didn’t.
[00:08:37] AD: Yeah.
[00:08:37] LH: Then the major disappointment, the difference with that is an unfulfilled expectation.
[00:08:44] AD: Expectations, yes.
[00:08:45] LH: Unfulfilled expectations. That’s the thing where you’ve got your heart set on something. You know, you can almost taste it. You can feel it. You can smell it like you visualized it. You almost can grasp hold of it, but then it slips out of your reach for some unknown reason. That is where the disappointment comes in when you don’t fulfill that thing that you want it to, whether getting a new contract with a client. You pitch your story, put together a great deck, slide deck. You had all the visuals. You had your numbers, and for some reason they went with the other company. That’s a disappointment, right?
For me, when I was 16 years old turning 16 I thought I was going to go on a date with my brother’s friend. I was all ready sitting by the door waiting for him to come pick me up. Six o’clock came seven o’clock came he never came to pick me up and that was a big disappointment. We all experienced disappointment on one level or another. Those are just a few examples of what that could look like for someone.
[00:09:49] ANNOUNCER: This is Branch Out, a Connection Builders podcast.
[00:09:57] AD: Let me ask you the difference of, so we all in life are going to have setbacks and disappointments, right? If I hear you, I think maybe one way to frame this out a setback is oftentimes I think, out of your control, meaning that you didn’t see it coming. It just happened to you. It doesn’t like, it might have been something you lacked doing or forgot to do or done historically that caught up with you, or might just be COVID, something happened, out of the blue.
[00:10:25] LH: It is one of those things where you think about, okay. Let’s say you’re preparing for retirement, right? Anybody who’s approaching age 59 and a half for 40 years, they’ve anticipated this date where they’d get to retire, but the timing is 2020 and 2022. Look what happened to the stock market. You talk about a financial setback, is one of the largest setbacks many of us can experience from a financial standpoint. We also experienced those setbacks, whether it’s the loss of a loved one, loss of employment, that breadwinner for your home, is no longer able to contribute, because during this pandemic we lost a lot of people. Those types of events that we didn’t see coming that we didn’t anticipate, create a setback.
Think about the people in Florida who went in the recent hurricane, having to rebuild, right? They chose these locations as their place of retirement. Now, their whole lives were upended by a storm. So those who are able to weather the storms of life, those who are able to dig it and find a way to rebuild, those are the ones who have resilience, those are the ones who exercise the Candy Girl Mentality.
[00:11:48] AD: I like the title. The resilience, let’s talk about that. How do you build it? What have you learned? What were some of your lessons in life that have helped you continue to embrace that mentality?
[00:11:57] LH: You know, early disappointments in my career, as a matter of fact. I am a CPA, but I will say I did not pass the exam on the first time out. In fact, I didn’t pass it on the second time out. When those results came, I bought the results up and throw to the ground and said, “You know what, I’m never taking this test again.” Why? Because I passed one part the first time, took it the second time passed, a different part failed that one, it was like, “Oh, no. This isn’t working. I’m not taking this again.” What happened was, I saw, I observed someone else who had success with the exam. I asked her, “What did you do to pass the three parts?” She told me, her exact game plan. “Lisa, I study before work, during lunch, after work, and nine hours per day on the weekend, Saturday, and Sunday.”
My initial response to her was, “I’m not going to do that like, that’s too much work.” Then I said to myself, “But you just asked her, what does she do? She gave you the blueprint. Who are you to not follow it?” So, therefore, once I finally came to my senses, I did exactly what she had done, planned out that schedule on how I was going to study and get that part done. When I took the exam that third time, I actually passed three parts, and only have one remaining part to take. So that was the beginning of it, really being able to adjust your mindset and your thinking, developing a new perspective is truly important whenever you’re faced with a challenge. A lot of times you yourself are the answer to turning this situation around just by changing your mind.
[00:13:40] AD: I have to guess that over the process, writing your book, you’ve had a lot of introspective time that’s helped you see that and look back in those pivotal moments in some of the mindset shifts in the way and recognizing where your mindset was getting away or ways of thinking or certain things that you were doing that were getting in your way of going where you want it to go. Can you take us through a little bit of that journey of writing and coming out. Some of the lessons you learned, but just even the process, the field. Yeah. Share a little of that with us.
[00:14:14] LH: Let’s talk about process first. Initially, I was told, “You know what? Put everything in there, because you can always take it out during edit.” Well, what I learned is you can write a book like that part “is easy.” That’s the first stage, but editing it is a whole other matter. The reason being is, because you have to be accountable for the words that you say. My intent was to make sure, not one, the first time I wrote it, it was like, I’m writing it for me. It was very cathartic. It allowed me to reflect on some moments in my life that I haven’t thought about in years. In fact, we do that as we go through life.
We tend to suppress the negative moments, right and we all talk about our highlight reels like, all the great things that I’ve done. Running for mayor, becoming a state representative, being honored within my profession are many things that I’m proud of. But it’s when you get a chance to look behind the curtain and say, “What is it that’s driving the success?” That’s what people don’t often see. Through this book, I’m giving people an opportunity to look behind the curtain and see what it is that makes Lisa Howze, tick. The way that she ticks, so that’s one part of it.
The second part is when going through the editing. I had to take a very large book, and condense it. It’s still large, but I wanted to make sure that I was providing the most value as possible to the reader. Allowing them to go on that journey with me through the stories that I share, giving them a chance to digest it for themselves and try it on and see how it fit in their own life, if they’ve had a similar experience. Then giving them some clues on how I worked my way through it.
I think a lot of times we go through experiences, and we feel a certain way about it as we’re going through it, but now that I’m on the other side, I actually see things through a different lens. I take the emotion out of it, right? That was present as I was going through some of those things, whether that was my time serving in legislative office, or having a very large responsibility as the mayor’s Chief of Staff, when we first came into the administration in 2014.
It wasn’t easy, taking on that level of responsibility for a city as large as the city of Detroit, right? But it was probably one of the best growing experiences of my entire career. When I think about people are often put in a position where they’ve got a new responsibility. I was responsible for an entire city in terms of staff, being responsible for the mayor’s policy agenda, a number of things of that nature, but what I found was, there’s a certain thing called that was then, this is now. There’s what you do on the campaign trail. There’s a whole other thing when it comes to governance, and having those responsibilities and having different people pulling at you all at the same time.
If you recall, we were a city that was in financial bankruptcy, as well. You know, when you talk about the external pressures that’s added along with the responsibility and how do you navigate through that. So I know that sometimes I have a chapter entitled, In Over Your Head, any leader who’s out there, that’s a new leader in the position of authority where you’re expected to make snap decisions, sometimes you don’t always have all the information, but I think you have to have the courage, yet, still to act on the information that you do have. It’s so very important. You can get lost in that at times. So one of the things that I encourage people to do is when you feel like you’re in over your head, that’s the perfect opportunity to stand up.
[00:18:18] AD: I love that. I love that. When you’re saying this, I’m listening to it and thinking from my own person – the feeling of being over my head. We were joking about this before we jumped on recording. The feeling of overwhelmed and having too many things like, I think at times, that’s actually it is in my own life experience. It sounds like exactly what I’m hearing from you is when you’re pushing against something that you don’t know how to do. You don’t know how to get through, it feels like it’s more than you can handle. If you just say I can handle it, I’ve got this. I have no other option going to do it. The stand-up, right, stand-up to what I’m challenged with, and all of a sudden – I don’t want to say gets easier, because it can be hard. It doesn’t –and in the moment, it doesn’t, there’s no light switch, doesn’t all of a sudden feel better, but oftentimes, it’s those situations that you look back and say, “I learned a lot. I came a long way through that situation.” Right?
[00:19:10] LH: Well, I think of it like this, so the perfect analogy is an experience that I had on the beach. At that time I was not a swimmer. I’m learning to swim now, right? I got a whole bunch of analogies just from these new experiences that I have, but I was just dancing along the edges of the water. A girlfriend of mine who was on a trip with me encouraged me to come out a little further, she’s like, “Come on, Lisa. Come on.” I’m like, “No, no. I stay right here.” She’s like, ”No, come on.” So I go out a little bit further. Then all of a sudden, this big wave comes along, and totally knocks me out like, plummets me to the floor of the water, of the beach and the water rushes over my head, snatches my glasses off my face. I’m flailing my arms screaming for help and she simply says, “Lisa, just stand up.”
[00:20:03] AD: It seemed a lot worse than it really was.
[00:20:05] LH: It seemed a lot worse than it really was. So I’m thinking those situations, you really got to get your bearings, and understand what it is that got you there, right? A lot of people suffer with imposter syndrome. They did all the right things to earn their place in that position. Sometimes you look around and there may be other people who are more experienced than you, they may have from an age standpoint, from a relationship standpoint. They’re closer. They’ve known each other for a long period of time. I’m in essence, the new kid on the block. How do you manage those different dynamics when you’re talking about any type of work situation?
Number one is that, is having that internal fortitude to know that you do deserve the position that you’re in. You do deserve the responsibility that you’ve been handed. Now how do you manage that, right? Part of it is you have to continue to demonstrate your value and look for those opportunities where it is within your wheelhouse. So for me, that’s exactly what happened. You have to look for those key breakout moments and when you see it, you seize it, you position yourself as that subject matter expert, and then you deliver the results. I think that’s when I talk about standing up. It is making it known that this is my area that I’m an authority on. So therefore I have the ability to deliver the results. It’s not just positive thinking like, “Oh, I can do this.” When it’s like, identify exactly what it is that you can do, and that you do so well that nobody else can say they did it better.
[00:21:50] AD: I completely agree with you. What you’re saying hits home. Let’s talk the imposter syndrome for a minute. I think that’s one that I certainly have dealt with. I know that most people I talked to have dealt with in one way or another. Share a little more. What are your thoughts on impostor syndrome? How do we overcome? How do we identify it? What do we do if we find ourselves in that place?
[00:22:07] LH: It’s quite natural to experience that. Again, depending on what your background is. Like what your normal experiences are? Then what makes you feel like you’re outside of your comfort zone? Let’s say we go to a party or networking event. Usually, it’s nice if you can go there with someone else. You have at least a buddy or friend, right, that you could talk to, but when you’re the only one in the room from your group, and you’re trying to figure out how to make inroads, you feel a little different. You feel like, “Do I really belong? How do I make friends? How do I make progress in this area?” Yes, I’m comfortable doing it on this level as a CPA. There’s a certain level of comfort with working with numbers. When you talk about politics is a whole different animal. Everything isn’t black and white. There’s a lot of gray area, right? So just recognizing that those differences do exist, and then looking for those opportunities to remind yourself once again, why you’re there, and what your purpose is for being there.
[00:23:20] AD: I don’t remember the exact wording you said earlier. I’m going to say something and please think back to here and tell me if I’m hearing or I’m thinking about this, right. If anyone – and I speaking through my own prism of this, if you have success in your life, and your career, oftentimes, you will continue to advance and it’s going to push you out of what you know to be normal, wherever that may be in your life. As you are pushed into that next level, if you will, or that next year of growth and success, you oftentimes can also find yourself surrounded by people who are already at that level, again if you will, and looking around saying, “I’ve never been here before.”
What impostor syndrome is that? Right? The, “I don’t belong here. I shouldn’t be here.” But the overcoming it is recognizing what you are there. How’d you get there? Did someone accidentally let you in? Because probably, no. But that’s how the world works, right? Like, you don’t just lay in place isn’t that normally, especially if it’s something you’ve earned and looked at, right? So really looking and saying, “Wow. Good job. You’re here.”
[00:24:24] LH: You’re always starting over, but the key is that you’re starting over on a new level, you see. We all started in kindergarten and continued our education on up to 12th grade until we graduated. Well, just imagine if you just stayed in elementary school like, you’d be the biggest, baddest, fifth grader there ever were, if that were the case. There will be no new expectations of you, because you – already learned the ropes. When it’s time to move on to middle school or junior high, and then high school, there’s a different set of requirements, or you, as you ascend to those different levels. You really have to understand how to navigate in that new space, understand what the written rules are, as well as the unwritten rules. I think it’s the unwritten rule that oftentimes causes one to stumble.
[00:25:19] ANNOUNCER: This is Branch Out, bringing you candid conversations with leading middle-market professionals.
[00:25:27] AD: I’m going to, I want to take this full circle back for my last question around this for you. In the beginning, you talked about their setbacks, and then there’s disappointments. When we think about, where do disappointments which are, an expectation element, right? I expected something to be it was easy to get here, why isn’t as easy to get there? Or I used to be good at it in this context, but I’m not good at it in this context. Those disappointments, the expectations that is, and I’m a big believer that expectations are something that are entirely in our control. More often than not in the world when we find ourselves unhappy, it’s the expectation. It’s our own expectation – being out of it, right? Helped me think, how do I wrap my mind around where that also fits in imposter syndrome and getting in the way of growth and how to frame or mindset around that?
[00:26:14] LH: Well, I think the couple of things that you need. I created a tool called, The 10 Essential Tools to Bouncing Back from a Setback or Major Disappointment. The top three out of those 10 is strength, courage, and wisdom. When I talk about strength is the power to push past limitations. The greatest limitation we have is the limitation between our two ears. It’s our mind. So we will only go and grow as far as the mind thinks that we can. That’s number one. Until we overcome self, that self-doubt, the insecurities, they’re better than me, the comparison. I think that’s what trips people up the most, as well, is when you begin to, or when we begin to compare ourselves to the next person, as opposed to just focusing on self, recognizing that when it comes to competition I’m competing not with the person to my left or to my right, but with the person who’s looking back at me in the mirror. That’s what it means to have Strength.
Courage, again, is to have the audacity to do it anyway. You don’t have the answers, you know, fear is ever-present. We’re not to hide or run from fear. We’re to face it and do it anyway. Then wisdom, wisdom comes from having gone through what I call an interim stage, which is mastering the meantime, or maximizing the meantime. I believe that you can’t really get to true wisdom, until you handle those periods where that disappointment comes, where the delay comes, where you used to be in on the mountaintop and now you find yourself in a valley. What do you do while you’re there? The best thing that you can do is exercise patience and asks, “Why am I here?” But then again, “Why am I not here?”
Those are the times where your character is being worked on. Something is being demonstrated to you about yourself, and giving you a chance to work on that particular area. If you have been, maybe this is a time for you to hone your skills better in a particular area. How can you study? How can you prepare more? How can you practice your craft in a way that makes you excel greater the next time you have an opportunity. Those Valley moments are when you embrace where you are. You recognize that there’s a purpose for everything that happens in life. There are no accidents. Then once you spin that time at the appointed time, you will get that elevation.
That’s exactly what happened for me when I was making my transition from the mayor’s office to then take on a vice presidency position within a university, private university here in the city of Detroit. So I think that when you combine the three strength, courage, and wisdom, and make sure you maximize the meantime, when you get to that peak moment in your career, your success, it is incumbent upon you to then share your experiences with the next person to help them reach their highest level of success.
[00:29:27] AD: This is one of the podcast recordings that I’m sitting here thinking, am I recording a podcast or am I getting personal advice that I really needed to hear? Please I really appreciate you sharing all of this. I’m actually very excited to read the book. I’m very excited to hear more of your story, your wisdom is so — it’s spot on, and you clearly have a tremendous amount of life experience and wisdom built along the way and you’ve clearly put a lot of work into not only sharing the story but sharing the framework and the thinking and the tools, necessary to help others see that as well. I have two questions that I want to wind this down with. Number one, where can we give them a list to know when the book comes out? Give us the details about the book so that listeners know where and how to get it when it’s out.
[00:30:14] LH: Absolutely. You’ll be able to go to candygirlmentality.com. Again, candygirlmentality.com on there, you’ll be able to sign or join the waitlist, that tool that I talked about the 10 Essential Tools to Bouncing Back From Setbacks or Major Disappointment. When you sign up to join the waitlist, you’ll get that from me for free.
[00:30:36] AD: I will be doing that as soon as we’re done here. My last question that I want to wind this down with, number one takeaway from writing the book, not from writing it, the process, what you went through, what’s one big key takeaway?
[00:30:49] LH: The biggest takeaway is that you got to own your story. I think, we talked about that before we get started here is that there are things in our lives and our past that aren’t always a part of the highlight reel that you see on Instagram, or Facebook, or any of those social sites, right? It’s those moments that happen in the dark. When we go through those dark moments, those valley moments, that’s when we’re being worked on, that’s when we’re being prepared for that next level.
For me, revisiting those instances in my life helped me to understand that this is the reason why I’m here in this moment. This is the reason why I was created so that I can help the next person get to their next.
[00:31:35] AD: There should be a requirement life that everyone writes some form of an autobiography at some point. Imagine that the wisdom that people – that you’ve gained and everyone gained. You make me sit here and think about what does my future look like? I appreciate coming on here. I appreciate you sharing the story. I’m beyond excited to read the book. Again, thank you very much for coming on and spending some time with us here today. Lisa.
[00:31:57] LH: Alex, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me and I look forward to connecting with you.
[00:32:04] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for tuning in this week. Share this podcast with your professional network to help others connect, grow and excel. Like what you hear? Leave us a review and don’t forget to subscribe now.